Reuse of elvish names, like in some US tribal communities

[~consul]

So is anyone know how much influence any native American traditions
Tolkien might have had?
Or where else did he get that tradition for the elves?

[O. Sharp]

Post by ~consul
So is anyone know how much influence any native American traditions
Tolkien might have had?
Or where else did he get that tradition for the elves?

No Native Ameriican influence that I'm aware of. Then, I've never thought
of reusing names as a practice specific to Native American cultures; the
reuse of names across generations is quite common.

But also, Tolkien's reuse of Elvish names is extremely _in_frequent, and
for good reason: when a name is reused, it's because _the original Elf who
bore the name has been re-embodied, and is in fact the same person._ The
Glorfindel who shows up in _Lord of the Rings_, for example, is the SAME
Glorfindel who died fighting a Balrog in Gondolin, having re-formed his
_hroa_ and returned to Middle-earth.

Am I just misreading your inquiry here?

--------------------------------------------------------------------
***@panix.com I didn't realize how long it's been since I'd
posted anything to r.a.b.t. - it actually took me a
few minutes to remember what command I had to issue
to post a followup to a newsgroup. Usenet's becoming
like having a secret portal to a ghost town. :)

[John W Kennedy]

Post by O. Sharp

Post by ~consul
So is anyone know how much influence any native American traditions
Tolkien might have had?
Or where else did he get that tradition for the elves?

No Native Ameriican influence that I'm aware of. Then, I've never thought
of reusing names as a practice specific to Native American cultures; the
reuse of names across generations is quite common.
But also, Tolkien's reuse of Elvish names is extremely _in_frequent, and
for good reason: when a name is reused, it's because _the original Elf who
bore the name has been re-embodied, and is in fact the same person._ The
Glorfindel who shows up in _Lord of the Rings_, for example, is the SAME
Glorfindel who died fighting a Balrog in Gondolin, having re-formed his
_hroa_ and returned to Middle-earth.
Am I just misreading your inquiry here?

And as far as I know, Tolkien knew nothing of Amerind culture beyond the
“red Indian” stories of his childhood. He was a philologist, not a
linguist, and concerned himself with accessible literary texts.

[~consul]

Post by O. Sharp

Post by ~consul
So is anyone know how much influence any native American traditions
Tolkien might have had?
Or where else did he get that tradition for the elves?

No Native Ameriican influence that I'm aware of. Then, I've never thought
of reusing names as a practice specific to Native American cultures; the
reuse of names across generations is quite common.
But also, Tolkien's reuse of Elvish names is extremely _in_frequent, and
for good reason: when a name is reused, it's because _the original Elf who
bore the name has been re-embodied, and is in fact the same person._ The
Glorfindel who shows up in _Lord of the Rings_, for example, is the SAME
Glorfindel who died fighting a Balrog in Gondolin, having re-formed his
_hroa_ and returned to Middle-earth.
Am I just misreading your inquiry here?

No, you understood me. I thought he might have a link as it's not just
reusing a name, it was very similar in that no one else alive could
use that name, so there was only 1 current of that name ever.
I don't think it was used as a reincarnation way, maybe, I'll ask.

[Steve Morrison]

Post by ~consul

Post by O. Sharp

Post by ~consul
So is anyone know how much influence any native American traditions
Tolkien might have had?
Or where else did he get that tradition for the elves?

No Native Ameriican influence that I'm aware of. Then, I've never thought
of reusing names as a practice specific to Native American cultures; the
reuse of names across generations is quite common.
But also, Tolkien's reuse of Elvish names is extremely _in_frequent, and
for good reason: when a name is reused, it's because _the original Elf who
bore the name has been re-embodied, and is in fact the same person._ The
Glorfindel who shows up in _Lord of the Rings_, for example, is the SAME
Glorfindel who died fighting a Balrog in Gondolin, having re-formed his
_hroa_ and returned to Middle-earth.
Am I just misreading your inquiry here?

No, you understood me. I thought he might have a link as it's not just
reusing a name, it was very similar in that no one else alive could
use that name, so there was only 1 current of that name ever.
I don't think it was used as a reincarnation way, maybe, I'll ask.

There were actually some cases where two living elves had the same name,
e.g. "Gelmir". We had a thread about it in 2011:

https://rec.arts.books.tolkien.narkive.com/gBZpWA1t/the-two-gelmirs

[Stan Brown]

Post by Steve Morrison

Post by ~consul

Post by O. Sharp

Post by ~consul
So is anyone know how much influence any native American traditions
Tolkien might have had?
Or where else did he get that tradition for the elves?

No Native Ameriican influence that I'm aware of. Then, I've never thought
of reusing names as a practice specific to Native American cultures; the
reuse of names across generations is quite common.
But also, Tolkien's reuse of Elvish names is extremely _in_frequent, and
for good reason: when a name is reused, it's because _the original Elf who
bore the name has been re-embodied, and is in fact the same person._ The
Glorfindel who shows up in _Lord of the Rings_, for example, is the SAME
Glorfindel who died fighting a Balrog in Gondolin, having re-formed his
_hroa_ and returned to Middle-earth.
Am I just misreading your inquiry here?

No, you understood me. I thought he might have a link as it's not just
reusing a name, it was very similar in that no one else alive could
use that name, so there was only 1 current of that name ever.
I don't think it was used as a reincarnation way, maybe, I'll ask.

There were actually some cases where two living elves had the same name,
https://rec.arts.books.tolkien.narkive.com/gBZpWA1t/the-two-gelmirs

I'm late to respond to this, but saved it till I could give it a real
read.

First, thanks for posting the Narkive link. Google newsgroup searches
are nearly worthless these days, so I'm hopeful that I may have
better luck with Narkive.

Second, just for those who might not have followed the link, this
line from the thread seems the critical one to me:
"No other _major_ character in the Elvish legends
as reported in /The Silmarillion/ and /The Lord of the Rings/
has a name borne by another Elvish _person_of_importance_."
(It's from Tolkien's essay on the two appearances of Glorfindel in
the legendarium, HoME XII:377-392. I've added emphasis.)

That's why the two living Gelmirs -- the parents of one could not
reasonably have known of the existence of the other.

But I think the mystery remains. Glorfindel "was intended to mean
'Golden-tressed'" (pg 379), so it would have seemed a natural name
for at least one other blond Elf-child born before Glorfindel's name
became known after the sack of Gondolin.

[Bill O'Meally]

Post by ~consul
So is anyone know how much influence any native American traditions
Tolkien might have had?
Or where else did he get that tradition for the elves?

The practice was more common among Dwarves, Men, and Hobbits than t was
among Elves.