"A Ring of Power looks after itself"

[Stan Brown]

In LotR I 2, "The Shadow of the Past", Gandalf tells Frodo that "a
Ring of Power looks after itself" -- it may abandon its bearer, but
the bearer can't just toss it away.

Based on those words, a correspondent asked why in the FAQ of the
Rings I didn't refer to Rings other than the One having this ability.
I replied that I thought, in the context of Gandalf's talk with
Frodo, Saying "A Ring of Power" he really was thinking only of the
One Ring. (As my correspondent had noted, we don't have any instances
of any other Ring abandoning its wearer.)

Story external, I don't think the other Rings existed at that early
stage in composition of LotR, though I'm not certain about that.

What do y'all think? Can we take "A Ring of Power" in chapter 2 to
refer just to the One, or is it really literally _any_ Ring of Power?

[Michael Ikeda]

Post by Stan Brown
In LotR I 2, "The Shadow of the Past", Gandalf tells Frodo that
"a Ring of Power looks after itself" -- it may abandon its
bearer, but the bearer can't just toss it away.
Based on those words, a correspondent asked why in the FAQ of
the Rings I didn't refer to Rings other than the One having this
ability. I replied that I thought, in the context of Gandalf's
talk with Frodo, Saying "A Ring of Power" he really was thinking
only of the One Ring. (As my correspondent had noted, we don't
have any instances of any other Ring abandoning its wearer.)
Story external, I don't think the other Rings existed at that
early stage in composition of LotR, though I'm not certain about
that.
What do y'all think? Can we take "A Ring of Power" in chapter 2
to refer just to the One, or is it really literally _any_ Ring
of Power?

I think it almost HAS to refer to other rings than just the One
Ring, or Gandalf would have said "The Ring" rather than "A Ring of
Power". Most likely it refers to the One, the Seven, and the Nine.
That is, those Great Rings at least partially forged by Sauron. It
presumably doesn't apply to the Three (at least not to the same
extent) because Cirdan doesn't seem to have had any problem giving
his ring to Gandalf. It also presumably doesn't apply to the
"lesser rings" that Gandalf refers to earlier in the same chapter.

Also note that near the beginning of Gandalf's explanation about
the rings he says "The Great Rings, the Rings of Power, they were
perilous". Later on in the chapter, he says that Sauron knows that
Gollum's ring is a "Great Ring" and also that it can't be one of
the Three, the Seven, or the Nine, and therefore must be the One.

(Interesting that the Three are included in the last sentence
above. They don't seem to be as dangerous as the other Great
Rings, but perhaps they would be if a mortal held one of them.)

[Bill O'Meally]

Post by Stan Brown
What do y'all think? Can we take "A Ring of Power" in chapter 2 to
refer just to the One, or is it really literally _any_ Ring of Power?

I would tend to agree with Michael Ikeda Stan. Though there are no
instances of anyone abandoning, or "tossing away" a Ring of Power that
I know of, there are instances where one was given away, or at least
offered freely. Círdan giving Narya to Gandalf was mentioned. Narya was
given to Círdan by Gil-galad, who also gave Vilya to Elrond. Not sure
if Nenya was given directly to Galadriel. Of course, Celebrimbor gave
all three away. Frodo offered to freely give the One Ring to Galadriel.
One could say that Frodo also "gave" the Ring to Gandalf in 'Shadow of
the Past', and to Tom Bombadil, though neither instance suggests he was
giving it away "for keeps". I don't think there's any mention of such
transactions with the Nine, though there's a bit more mentioned about
the Seven IIRC, that I would need to read up on.

[Michael Ikeda]

Post by Bill O'Meally

Post by Stan Brown
What do y'all think? Can we take "A Ring of Power" in chapter 2
to refer just to the One, or is it really literally _any_ Ring
of Power?

I would tend to agree with Michael Ikeda Stan. Though there are
no instances of anyone abandoning, or "tossing away" a Ring of
Power that I know of, there are instances where one was given
away, or at least offered freely. Círdan giving Narya to Gandalf
was mentioned. Narya was given to Círdan by Gil-galad, who also
gave Vilya to Elrond. Not sure if Nenya was given directly to
Galadriel. Of course, Celebrimbor gave all three away. Frodo
offered to freely give the One Ring to Galadriel. One could say
that Frodo also "gave" the Ring to Gandalf in 'Shadow of the
Past', and to Tom Bombadil, though neither instance suggests he
was giving it away "for keeps". I don't think there's any
mention of such transactions with the Nine, though there's a bit
more mentioned about the Seven IIRC, that I would need to read
up on.

At the Council of Elrond, Gandalf says (referring to the one of the
Seven that had been held by Durin's line) that "Thror gave it to
Thrain his son". The phrasing does seem to suggest that Thror was
still alive when this happened.

[theswain]

Of course, the related question is what is meant by "take care of itself"...we know in the instance of The One that it felt the call of Sauron and so responded to it. But what would the 3 do in terms of "taking care of themselves" in the context of G's discussion?

Post by Stan Brown
In LotR I 2, "The Shadow of the Past", Gandalf tells Frodo that "a
Ring of Power looks after itself" -- it may abandon its bearer, but
the bearer can't just toss it away.
Based on those words, a correspondent asked why in the FAQ of the
Rings I didn't refer to Rings other than the One having this ability.
I replied that I thought, in the context of Gandalf's talk with
Frodo, Saying "A Ring of Power" he really was thinking only of the
One Ring. (As my correspondent had noted, we don't have any instances
of any other Ring abandoning its wearer.)
Story external, I don't think the other Rings existed at that early
stage in composition of LotR, though I'm not certain about that.
What do y'all think? Can we take "A Ring of Power" in chapter 2 to
refer just to the One, or is it really literally _any_ Ring of Power?
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://BrownMath.com/
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
Tolkien FAQs: http://Tolkien.slimy.com (Steuard Jensen)
Tolkien letters FAQ: http://preview.tinyurl.com/pr6sa7u
FAQ of the Rings: http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm
Encyclopedia of Arda: http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm

[Glenn Holliday]

Post by Stan Brown
In LotR I 2, "The Shadow of the Past", Gandalf tells Frodo that "a
Ring of Power looks after itself" -- it may abandon its bearer, but
the bearer can't just toss it away.
What do y'all think? Can we take "A Ring of Power" in chapter 2 to
refer just to the One, or is it really literally _any_ Ring of Power?

For Tolkien, the effects of powerful things/persons (stuff that Tolkien
didn't like to call magic) were the results of the nature of the
things. The nature of the One Ring was, I think, quite different
than the nature of the other Rings.

For a wearer to be unable to abandon a ring is a coercive effect
of the ring on the wearer. That is in Sauron's nature, and
definitely part of the nature of the One. It feels very alien
from the nature of the Three.

Sauron intended the Seven and the Nine to be corrupting, so
I would expect to see that coercive effect with
them as well. That seems to be so with the Nine. Tolkien
tells us the nature of the Dwarves included resisting
the coercion of the Seven, so at least one Dwarf lord
bequeathed one of the Seven to an heir. I would not be
surprised if a human who came to possess one of the Seven
would have difficulty giving it up.

[Kevin K]

Post by Stan Brown
In LotR I 2, "The Shadow of the Past", Gandalf tells Frodo that "a
Ring of Power looks after itself" -- it may abandon its bearer, but
the bearer can't just toss it away.
Based on those words, a correspondent asked why in the FAQ of the
Rings I didn't refer to Rings other than the One having this ability.
I replied that I thought, in the context of Gandalf's talk with
Frodo, Saying "A Ring of Power" he really was thinking only of the
One Ring. (As my correspondent had noted, we don't have any instances
of any other Ring abandoning its wearer.)
Story external, I don't think the other Rings existed at that early
stage in composition of LotR, though I'm not certain about that.

I'm under the impression that there was no real difference between the 7 and the 9 other than who they were given to. Since there were 7 dwarf houses, 1 was given to each and the remaining 9 were given to the more plentiful men.

Post by Stan Brown
What do y'all think? Can we take "A Ring of Power" in chapter 2 to
refer just to the One, or is it really literally _any_ Ring of Power?
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://BrownMath.com/
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
Tolkien FAQs: http://Tolkien.slimy.com (Steuard Jensen)
Tolkien letters FAQ: http://preview.tinyurl.com/pr6sa7u
FAQ of the Rings: http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm
Encyclopedia of Arda: http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm

[Stan Brown]

Post by Kevin K
I'm under the impression that there was no real difference between the 7 and the 9 other than who they were given to. Since there were 7 dwarf houses, 1 was given to each and the remaining 9 were given to the more plentiful men.

I'm under the same impression. The Three were different, because they
were never corrupted by Sauron, but he aided in the making of both
the Seven and the Nine.

"How did the Seven and the Nine differ?"
http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm#H3-SevenNine

"Were the Seven and Nine Rings originally intended for Dwarves and
Men?"
http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm#Q79-Intent

[Thomas Koenig]

Post by Stan Brown
I'm under the same impression. The Three were different, because they
were never corrupted by Sauron, but he aided in the making of both
the Seven and the Nine.

Still, they were "powered" by Morgoth's essence, so they could
never be wholly pure.

(Did we discuss previously that all Rings, especially the One,
may have served to concentrate most of Morgoth's essence infused
into Arda into the Rings, and when the One was destroyed, this
essence was destroyed, leaving Arda a cleaner place than previously?
This might explain why leaving Sauron was actually a good thing,
despite being harsh on the people for the Second and Third Age.

I am sure I read that explanation somewhere, but I am no longer
sure where.)