Humorous lines in the Silmarillion

[Christopher Kreuzer]

Following the (still rumbling on and very entertaining) thread on
humorous lines in LotR, I was wondering what lines people found funny in
The Silmarillion. I don't hold much hope for there being that many, but
maybe there are some.

My offer is Mandos's pronouncements of Doom. These are funny partly
because the Valar seem unable to change their minds after Mandos says
things like "So it is doomed" in the debate about whether to bring the
Quendi (Elves) to Valinor. The other funny bit about this particular
Mandos statement is that you can just imagine the other Valar mentally
groaning as the implication could be that their decision was 'wrong',
and also they would like to thump Mandos for being a pretentious twat.

The other faintly humorous scene I can think of is when Feanor shuts his
door in Melkor's face when he sees him for the evil scheming bastard he
is. You can laugh at Melkor's embarassment.

Of course, none of these are side-spliting humour, but you wouldn't
expect that from The Silmarillion. More a scattering of gentle wry
smiles.

Christopher

[Chocoholic]

Post by Christopher Kreuzer
Following the (still rumbling on and very entertaining) thread on
humorous lines in LotR, I was wondering what lines people found funny in
The Silmarillion. I don't hold much hope for there being that many, but
maybe there are some.
My offer is Mandos's pronouncements of Doom. These are funny partly
because the Valar seem unable to change their minds after Mandos says
things like "So it is doomed" in the debate about whether to bring the
Quendi (Elves) to Valinor. The other funny bit about this particular
Mandos statement is that you can just imagine the other Valar mentally
groaning as the implication could be that their decision was 'wrong',
and also they would like to thump Mandos for being a pretentious twat.
The other faintly humorous scene I can think of is when Feanor shuts his
door in Melkor's face when he sees him for the evil scheming bastard he
is. You can laugh at Melkor's embarassment.
Of course, none of these are side-spliting humour, but you wouldn't
expect that from The Silmarillion. More a scattering of gentle wry
smiles.

I have to admit that I wondered where he got the phrase 'Jail-crow of
Mandos' since the very first time I read it. 'Jail-crow' or 'jail-bird' is a
slang term for an ex-con. How would this phrase (or an equivalent) have
developed in Valinor? There is no indication of any regular imprisonment, or
the imprisonment of anyone prior to Melkor. It seems a bit of an
anachronism.

[j***@f3pshelob.com]

Post by Christopher Kreuzer
Following the (still rumbling on and very entertaining) thread on
humorous lines in LotR, I was wondering what lines people found funny in
The Silmarillion. I don't hold much hope for there being that many, but
maybe there are some.

The only two that pop out at me right off are Mandos saying "Not the
first." about the first death of an elf, and Aule saying to Yavanna
"Nonetheless they will have need of wood." and going about his
business.

Of course, I have a pretty warped sense of humor.

-Jon


Spamblock in place. Use Sting to reply.
If you don't understand this, read Lord of the Rings,
especially The Two Towers. Imitate Sam, use Sting.

[Christopher Kreuzer]

<***@f3pshelob.com>> wrote

[about humour in The Silmarillion]

Post by j***@f3pshelob.com
The only two that pop out at me right off are Mandos saying "Not the
first." about the first death of an elf, and Aule saying to Yavanna
"Nonetheless they will have need of wood." and going about his
business.
Of course, I have a pretty warped sense of humor.

The second one is definitely funny. The first one is yet another
annoying Mandosism, thanks for reminding me of that one. You can imagne
Manwe on the psychiatrist's couch talking to Eru:

Manwe: "I want to strangle Mandos everytime he comes up with those
Dooms. Can't you stop dropping these heavy hints everywhere?"

Eru: <muffled giggle>

Manwe: Huh?

Eru: <solemnly> I hear your words, Manwe. All will redound to my glory.

Post by j***@f3pshelob.com
Spamblock in place. Use Sting to reply.
If you don't understand this, read Lord of the Rings,
especially The Two Towers. Imitate Sam, use Sting.

I can't work this one out. I understand the link with Shelob. What the
hell is f3p all about? Imitating Sam's use of Sting on Shelob?

[Chris Kern]

On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 02:40:11 GMT, "Christopher Kreuzer"

Post by Christopher Kreuzer
I can't work this one out. I understand the link with Shelob. What the
hell is f3p all about? Imitating Sam's use of Sting on Shelob?

Remove shelob from the e-mail to reply.

-Chris

[Jon Gilchrist]

Post by Chris Kern
On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 02:40:11 GMT, "Christopher Kreuzer"

Post by Christopher Kreuzer
I can't work this one out. I understand the link with Shelob. What the
hell is f3p all about? Imitating Sam's use of Sting on Shelob?

Remove shelob from the e-mail to reply.
-Chris

Exactly.

-Jon
Address is munged. Use Sting to reply.
If you don't understand this, read The Lord of the Rings.

[Christopher Kreuzer]

Post by Jon Gilchrist

Post by Chris Kern
Remove shelob from the e-mail to reply.

Exactly.

Ah. I tried replacing shelob with sting...

[Graeme]

Post by Christopher Kreuzer
Following the (still rumbling on and very entertaining) thread on
humorous lines in LotR, I was wondering what lines people found funny in
The Silmarillion. I don't hold much hope for there being that many, but
maybe there are some.

I like Gothmog's comment to Morgoth after driving Ungoliant away:
"Who was that lady I saw you with tonight?"

Or Turin's "Either this man is dead, or my watch has stopped" remark
when he killed Saeros.

Or the end of The Akallabeth, where God votes EVERYBODY off the
island.

[Graeme]

Post by Christopher Kreuzer
Following the (still rumbling on and very entertaining) thread on
humorous lines in LotR, I was wondering what lines people found funny in
The Silmarillion. I don't hold much hope for there being that many, but
maybe there are some.

I've always liked Gothmog's comment when he drove Ungoliant away from
Morgoth: "Who was that lady I saw you with?"

Or Turin's "Either this man is dead or my watch has stopped" remark
after killing Saeros.

Or the end of The Akallabeth, when God votes EVERYBODY off the island.

[Mr. Berserker]

Post by Graeme

Post by Christopher Kreuzer
Following the (still rumbling on and very entertaining) thread on
humorous lines in LotR, I was wondering what lines people found funny in
The Silmarillion. I don't hold much hope for there being that many, but
maybe there are some.

I've always liked Gothmog's comment when he drove Ungoliant away from
Morgoth: "Who was that lady I saw you with?"
Or Turin's "Either this man is dead or my watch has stopped" remark
after killing Saeros

Or: "And Morgoth came." It looked like the end scene of
Ghostbusters...

Post by Graeme
Or the end of The Akallabeth, when God votes EVERYBODY off the island.

Well, there is a lot of unintentional/intentional humor in QS, LotR.
Th' Hobbit of course has more intentional humor, but is children humor
(kind of puerile).

The Nirnaeth Arnoediad is grim humor depending on how you look at it.
I can just imagine Uldor the Accursed in a MiG-19 Fresco and Maglor in
an F-4 Phantom II circling into a dogfight...

--
Mine cloven Fresco burneth!! My fuselage and wings smoketh like unto
the three peaks of Thangorodrim!! AGHHHHH!!!

[Graeme]

Post by Mr. Berserker
Or: "And Morgoth came." It looked like the end scene of
Ghostbusters...

Heh, heh, come to think of it, that is a funny line. Sounds like an
ad pitch. "You wanted more Morgoth? Brother, you've got him."

Post by Mr. Berserker
The Nirnaeth Arnoediad is grim humor depending on how you look at it.

Oh, certainly. No funny *lines* that I can think of, but the whole
disaster had a tragicomic air about it. Like the way so much depended
on such a little thing as Gwindor just happening to be at the one spot
in the line where his brother was being killed. Or the whole Maxwell
Smartian "missed it by that much" bit where they get right up to the
gates of Angband before being pushed back. Or the way the initial
charge makes chop suey of the Orc band that had been assigned to lure
them out of the hills (a pyrrhic victory for the Orcs if there ever
was one). Or the Dwarves checking out of the battle to carry Azaghal
away, singing grimly, with nobody dared to try to stop them. Or even
the half-hearted support that the operation got from some quarters,
just because Maedhros was organizing it.

Come to think of it, this was a VERY funny battle. Probably a lot of
the survivors were laughing about it afterwards, right before the guys
in white coats took them away. Not rolling on the ground funny, but
definitely the funniest of the Battles of Beleriand (with the least
funny probably being the unnamed First Battle).

[Batholomew Jojo]

'I can add some more, if you'd like it," said
Sam. 'Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to punch
his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirrifs look
a lot of Tom Fools.'

[Morgoth's Curse]

Post by Graeme

Post by Mr. Berserker
Or: "And Morgoth came." It looked like the end scene of
Ghostbusters...

Heh, heh, come to think of it, that is a funny line. Sounds like an
ad pitch. "You wanted more Morgoth? Brother, you've got him."

Well, if you are so fortunate as to possess a filthy mind, it is
possible to read sexual innuendo in that line. It almost sounds like
Morgoth got off on the thought of fighting Fingolfin. ;-)

Morgoth's Curse

[Count Menelvagor]

Post by Graeme
Come to think of it, this was a VERY funny battle. Probably a lot of
the survivors were laughing about it afterwards, right before the guys
in white coats took them away. Not rolling on the ground funny, but
definitely the funniest of the Battles of Beleriand (with the least
funny probably being the unnamed First Battle).

Balrog TV has a HILARIOUS sitcom about it: Hurin's Heroes.

[Jon Meltzer]

Post by Christopher Kreuzer
Of course, none of these are side-spliting humour,

Well, there is Huan The Wonder Dog ...

[Christopher Kreuzer]

Post by Jon Meltzer

Post by Christopher Kreuzer
Of course, none of these are side-spliting humour,

Well, there is Huan The Wonder Dog ...

Huan is funny? How?

[Prai Jei]

Christopher Kreuzer (or somebody else of the same name) wrote in message

Post by Christopher Kreuzer
My offer is Mandos's pronouncements of Doom. These are funny partly
because the Valar seem unable to change their minds after Mandos says
things like "So it is doomed"

.Isn't that precisely what "So it is doomed" means? There's nothing funny
about it. Precisely that unchageable nature of a decree according to the
law of the Medes and Persians sent Daniel to the lions' den, as narrated in
Chapter 6 of the Book of Daniel.

[Christopher Kreuzer]

Post by Prai Jei

Post by Christopher Kreuzer
My offer is Mandos's pronouncements of Doom. These are funny partly
because the Valar seem unable to change their minds after Mandos says
things like "So it is doomed"

.Isn't that precisely what "So it is doomed" means? There's nothing
funny about it. Precisely that unchageable nature of a decree
according to the law of the Medes and Persians sent Daniel to the
lions' den, as narrated in Chapter 6 of the Book of Daniel.

Nothing funny about the actual line. More the fact that a character in
the book can actually come out and say something like that. I read it
more as Mandos, having known all along what will happen, making an
anouncement that he can now confirm what will happen by way of a
prophecy. On the other hand, him saying it as a confirmation of what the
Valar have decided, does make more sense, as a lawgiver rather than
prophet, and is not at all funny.

So is Mandos both Lawgiver and Prophet, or neither, or one or the other?

Christopher

[Stug]

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 21:22:19 GMT, "Christopher Kreuzer"

Post by Christopher Kreuzer
Following the (still rumbling on and very entertaining) thread on
humorous lines in LotR, I was wondering what lines people found funny in
The Silmarillion. I don't hold much hope for there being that many, but
maybe there are some.

See my sig.

Stug


"...the Balrogs get hence with a measureless booty." --Meglin, The Fall of Gondolin
(Remove 'stug' from e-mail address to contact me)

FAQ-like Guide to the Letters of JRRT: http://users.telerama.com/~taliesen/tolkien/lettersfaq.html
Guide to U.S. Editions: http://users.telerama.com/~taliesen/tolkien/editions.html

[Calvin Rice]

... , I was wondering what lines people found funny in
The Silmarillion. I don't hold much hope for there being that many, but
maybe there are some.
...

In Akallabêth, cosmic folly, with more than a hint of absurdity: the
Númenóreans "... going up with war against the Deathless, to wrest from
them everlasting life within the Circles of the World."

-cr

[timananda]

Organization: http://groups.google.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien,alt.fan.tolkien
Date: 7 Feb 2004 17:09:45 -0800
Subject: Re: Humorous lines in the Silmarillion

... , I was wondering what lines people found funny in
The Silmarillion. I don't hold much hope for there being that many, but
maybe there are some.
...

In Akallabêth, cosmic folly, with more than a hint of absurdity: the
Númenóreans "... going up with war against the Deathless, to wrest from
them everlasting life within the Circles of the World."
-cr

OK, let's face it... the Silm is the most humourless book on the planet
(apart from most religious texts).

Tim

[Calvin Rice]

Post by timananda
OK, let's face it... the Silm is the most humourless book on the planet
(apart from most religious texts).

That's not the premise of the thread. The original poster admitted that
humorous lines would be hard to find in this book, but thought some humor
might be found nevertheless. So it's perfectly ok to point out glimmers
of humor where we think we spot them. No guffaws are expected.

-cr

[Richard Williams]

Post by Calvin Rice
So it's perfectly ok to point out glimmers
of humor where we think we spot them. No guffaws are expected.

How about Sauron's little 'joke' with Gorlim?:

"Then Sauron laughed; and he mocked Gorlim, and revealed to him that he
had only seen a phantom devised by wizardry to entrap him; for Eilinel was
dead. 'Nonetheless I will grant thy prayer,' said Sauron; 'and thou shalt
go to Eilinel, and be set free of my service.' Then he put him cruelly to
death."

[zett]

Post by Christopher Kreuzer
Following the (still rumbling on and very entertaining) thread on
humorous lines in LotR, I was wondering what lines people found funny in
The Silmarillion. I don't hold much hope for there being that many, but
maybe there are some.

[examples snipped]

These are not from the Silmarillion itself as published, but rather
from the *Narn i Hin Hurin* in Unfinished Tales, from the section
called *Turin among the Outlaws*:

[Turin]found himself within a circle of men with bent bows and drawn
swords.
Then Turin halted, but he showed no fear. 'Who are you?' he said. 'I
thought that only Orcs waylaid Men; but I see that I am mistaken.'...
his death seemed near, for many arrows were notched to the string,
waiting for the word of the captain...But Turin seeing some stones at
the stream's edge before his feet, stooped suddenly; and in that
instant one of the men, angered by his words, let fly a shaft. But it
passed over Turin, and he springing up cast a stone at the bowman with
great force and true aim; and he fell to the ground with broken skull.
'I might be of more service to you alive, in the place of that
luckless man,' said Turin; and turning to Forweg he said: 'If you are
the captain here, you should not allow your men to shoot without
command.'
'I do not,' said Forweg; 'but he has been rebuked swiftly enough. I
will take you in his stead, if you will heed my words better.'

Then there is the bit later on in the same section where Turin kills
Forweg rather than let him and Androg rape a woman; the woman tells
Turin to kill them both to get a bounty from her father, but Turin
refuses and sends her away and spares Androg. This causes Androg to
later say to his fellows, 'He left my head on my shoulders, for which
I am grateful, though much puzzled.'

Later on Androg then says: 'As it was when he joined us, so it is
again. He kills to make room. If it proved well before, so may it
again; and he may lead us to better fortune than prowling about other
men's middens.'

These are the only sections in the whole 'Silmarillion' corpus where I
recall any humor at all. Of course, YMMV.

[news.chello.at]

Post by Christopher Kreuzer
Following the (still rumbling on and very entertaining) thread on
humorous lines in LotR, I was wondering what lines people found funny
in The Silmarillion. I don't hold much hope for there being that
many, but maybe there are some.

I found the conversation between Beren and Thingol, after Beren returned to
Doriath, somewhat funny:

And Thingol answered: "What of your quest, and of your vow?"
But Beren said: "It is fulfilled. Even now a Silmaril is in my hand."
Then Thingol said: "Show it to me!"
And Beren put forth his left hand, slowly opening its fingers; but
it was empty. Then he held up his right arm; and from that hour he
named himsels Camlost, the Empty-handed.

Thomas